Curse

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 18, 2009, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cobalt

That is not the point;

The fact is Nerfs should NOT nor ever should have been part of the games they should not be something we the consumer have to deal with it because it is NOT we the consumer’s problem.

A nerf is essentially we the consumer paying for the game makers mistakes, it is a 110% wrong anyway you look at it. They are becoming more and more abusive with them and no one paid their hard earned cash to have their game play rudely and incessantly altered by them.

The state of gaming today would be so much better had there been laws protecting the consumers from removing or altering purchased products with the exception of adding additional content or fixing of bugs that hinder game play. Thus making the game makers mistakes 110% the game makers problem as it should be and been all along.

This is a ridiculous argument. I'm sorry, but seriously? If anything is overpowered, ANet should just buff everything to it's strength?

How about, oh I don't know, Mind Burn. How would you bring Mind Burn up to the "single player rapes entire game" stage that SF is at? Remove recharge, exhaustion, cast time, and make it do 1000 armor ignoring damage, and 5x damage if the target has more health than you?

Breakfast Mc Rit · Sep 18, 2009, 11:00 AM // 11:00

I hope they don't collapse under the pressure of the peanut gallery (who seem to have no semblance of an idea as to how terrible quick fixes are, might I add) and Smiter's Boon SF.

As someone who only just started SF farming, I now understand the avenues and insight to elite areas the skill opens up to new and inexperienced players, and to hastily take that away from them in the state the game is in now would be pretty devastating. It's for this reason that Anet wants to take their time to get it right.

Effendi Westland · Sep 18, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

My thoughts on this update, which is imo a decent update, though a bit random on some parts. Commenting only on the skill-updates I have thoughts about, pve thoughts that is.

Mantra of Resolve – If SF did not exist this might have made a bit of sense, but as SF is here in it’s current form it’s strange that they nerf this and leave SF untouched. Pve <--> PvP split please.

Death Blossom – good that this is only a change to the pvp version.

Selfless Spirit – Deserved. I shouldn’t be able to spam 5e skills on my monk like there is no tomorrow.

Finale of Restoration – Yay! Even though I don’t use the skill for solo-ing I do use it in some specific situations in team builds, where due to the earlier change it became worthless.

Nice update, they left some stuff out unfortunately and that means that at least for the next two months SF will be king and ruler of all pve, as most of the disillusioned 600 monks will be making assassins…

Mine already has the right skills and access to all the places, just couldn't be asked to try it out, guess the time has come to jump on the SF-train!

The Arching Healer · Sep 18, 2009, 11:02 AM // 11:02

Funny how they first buff X and then nerf Y.

Munkypoo7 · Sep 18, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Awesome update, bye bye PvX Escape Daggers R/A

And mantra doesn't ruin ALL 600/smite, i can still do without it... its simply stops noobs from 600/smiting...

AmbientMelody · Sep 18, 2009, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Again...Anet giving us reasons for the updates is nice, but the fact that they didn't touch SF is completely illogical and not surprising. What is the point of touching anything else when the shining beacon of inbalance remains? You either balance the game or you don't...there is no in between.

SF is a touchy matter, and so other skills which have significant effect on the gameplay - what means changes won't be enforced, but will be submitted to test krewe and up for discussion, so basically 2-3 months from now on to fix that.

PS. Happy farming while you can, Anet has very bad present for Christmas for you

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 18, 2009, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit

I hope they don't collapse under the pressure of the peanut gallery (who seem to have no semblance of an idea as to how terrible quick fixes are, might I add) and Smiter's Boon SF.

As someone who only just started SF farming, I now understand the avenues and insight to elite areas the skill opens up to new and inexperienced players, and to hastily take that away from them in the state the game is in now would be pretty devastating. It's for this reason that Anet wants to take their time to get it right.

The thing is, is that SF needs to be Smiter's Boon'd. The mechanic is pants on head retarded. "You become invincible". Awesome. It is either to a point where it is ridiculous and can be maintained constantly, completely breaking the game...or it can't be kept up indefinitely and becomes pretty useless since elite defensive skills usually are pretty pointless.

It requires either being smiter boon'd, or a complete mechanic rework. But from what I have heard, instead of fixing their retarded mechanic, they are going to CHANGE THE GAME AROUND THE SKILL. So, so stupid.

hallomik · Sep 18, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

I'm a PVE player who does not use SF farming builds as I find it really tedious to constantly maintain it. I much prefer other types of farming builds.

That said, if they nerf SF, what is the role of the 'Sin in PVE? An assassin is a fragile, melee attacker that does high, fast damage to a single target. In general this is brilliant in PVP and pretty worthless in PVE.

If Anet nerf's SF hard with no replacement PVE role, the QQ'ing on this thread will seem like a tea party with the queen of England in comparison.

Bug John · Sep 18, 2009, 11:23 AM // 11:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Effendi Westland

Mantra of Resolve – If SF did not exist this might have made a bit of sense, but as SF is here in it’s current form it’s strange that they nerf this and leave SF untouched. Pve <--> PvP split please.

maybe this was a pure pvp nerf, but they didn't split because they didn't see the consequences for pve...

escape nerfed the way it had to be, I'm already happy with that

Yelling @ Cats · Sep 18, 2009, 11:24 AM // 11:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

That said, if they nerf SF, what is the role of the 'Sin in PVE? An assassin is a fragile, melee attacker that does high, fast damage to a single target. In general this is brilliant in PVP and pretty worthless in PVE.

I have to ask...do you run a mending warrior?

Effendi Westland · Sep 18, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by hallomik

That said, if they nerf SF, what is the role of the 'Sin in PVE? An assassin is a fragile, melee attacker that does high, fast damage to a single target. In general this is brilliant in PVP and pretty worthless in PVE.

If Anet nerf's SF hard with no replacement PVE role, the QQ'ing on this thread will seem like a tea party with the queen of England in comparison.

Assassins have plenty uses in pve, their squishiness is irrelevant if you got a decent prot monk with you. Even without prot they have plenty skills to boost their survivability. I say this as an experienced assassin, do plenty of HM and never had SF on my skillbar (yet).

Their damage output (scythe or moebius/death blossom) is the stuff of gods, especially when combined with dwarf weapon or even better splinter weapon.

In short anybody who complains assassins don't have uses in pve when SF gets nerfed is a nubcake in my book.

uziyonasi · Sep 18, 2009, 11:41 AM // 11:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xsiriss

Sorry but why did they nerf rip ench? They should have reduced the recharge for PvE and the 'buffs' for the necro skills in pve? Why would a necro be near the frontline...Sure this has the necessary nerfs but that's it really.

Totally agree, Necros are already got nerfed so many times to being almost useless in any form of pvp.
Rip Enchantment was so good but not even near as being OP just because of the short recharge time, and the bleeding effect is just neglible. I hope for a revert but as far as i can see necros really dont get any good PvP buffs at all.
And I'm not even going to waste my breath on the PvE necro "buffs"...
I really hope that at the next update there will be a huge change to the necro skills, it's really hard to PvP in any kind of format nowdays with a necro.

About MoR, I 600/smite quite a lot, and besides CoF I just dont use this skill. I think that CoF is doable just fine without MoR, just no more mindless spamming I guess...

Way to go with the nerf to R/A, those kind of things just shouldn't exist in the first place, it made my eyes bleed observing 6 R/A in HA spamming like there is no tommarow. Same goes for MB/Distortion Eles.

Regarding the QQ that SF didn't get nerfed yet, I think there are enough threads all over the place asking for this. But just a reminder, before SF was 24/7 maintainable, there was a lot of QQ that Sins could not find their place in PvE farms. Basicaly because sins are a FRAGILE proffesion. Now I agree with the nerf to SF so that Eles cannot UWSC without additional cons so that only sins can do it and that is more tricky to maintain, but if they will nerf SF to oblivion ANet need to find a way to still keep sins viable for PvE farming. So instead of demanding a nerf why not try so suggest diffrent ways for sins to fit in PvE without godmode.
Currently if SF goes, Sins goes... and I think thats what Linsey intended to say at PAX. Not to mention that you rarely see anymore A/X in GvG/HA after all the nerfs to many sin elite skills and the IAS for A/W's.

Breakfast Mc Rit · Sep 18, 2009, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yelling @ Cats

The thing is, is that SF needs to be Smiter's Boon'd. The mechanic is pants on head retarded. "You become invincible". Awesome. It is either to a point where it is ridiculous and can be maintained constantly, completely breaking the game...or it can't be kept up indefinitely and becomes pretty useless since elite defensive skills usually are pretty pointless.

It requires either being smiter boon'd, or a complete mechanic rework. But from what I have heard, instead of fixing their retarded mechanic, they are going to CHANGE THE GAME AROUND THE SKILL. So, so stupid.

Let's ask ourselves this: What does it teach the inexperienced? Energy management, the importance of runes and weapon sets/switching, aggro control, skill mechanics...

The list can go on. Yes, it gets abused, there is no doubt about it. However, the opportunities it opens to new players to experience what high-end PvE veterans experience cannot go without thought. I applaud Linsey for giving thought to these players. Let's face it, PvE is ridden with the inexperienced who don't know anything about what I just mentioned. All they know is repeated death due to poor self control.

eyekwah2 · Sep 18, 2009, 12:08 PM // 12:08

I see where they were going with the changes to Patient Spirit and Selfless Spirit. Monks used to be notoriously bad with energy management. The energy capacity was one of the defining aspects of a good monk back in the days of prophecies (for those that remember, Elementalist/Monks were not uncommon for the energy boost they provided). Monks have been given a holiday for a long time, and it's time that energy become a pressing issue again. Patient Spirit was nerfed because in of itself it was quite a powerful heal for 5 energy. They could have boosted the heal and made it cost 10 energy or they could have just increased the recharge. I think we got off easily, all things considered. Though make no mistake, a heal skill which takes 4 seconds to charge is practically half as useful as a heal skill which takes 2 seconds to charge. Patient Spirit, you will be missed.

Also, did ya *have* to nerf Distortion? I could possibly understand MoR, but Distortion already had a serious drawback. You needed a lot of attribute points just to get to the point where you could have the equivalent of a permanent energy drain. Plus, don't see a lot of mesmers around these days, do you? I'd like to see underused skills like Overload get major damage boosts so that those who play well make Mesmer a decent pvp class. Now, more often than not, you see them as secondaries to pair Spiteful Spirit alongside empathy.

Chocobo1 · Sep 18, 2009, 12:24 PM // 12:24

There needs to be some way to filter posts so that I don't have to read the bad players complaints.

Guy above is asking why they nerfed Distortion... Really?
Selfless Spirit is being complained about, 20 seconds of spammable spells is fine, It's PvE and there are far worse forms of E-Manage. It's a good solid option for Monks.
Mantra of Resolve is more than likely an oversight, but people claim it is the end of 600/Smite? I hope you are kidding, it's a nerf to it yes but it's not the end. Not by a long shot.

I'm wondering how long it is going to take to find the next R/A build. I felt Expertise allowing for the spamming of the dagger attacks was a major problem with the build, and this wasn't addressed at all. The R/A Shattering Assaulters are already popping up, I'm expecting more variants in the future. I'll be honest and say that I was expecting a little more for so many months without any changes, but for once none of these changes actually harmed the game so I'm not too upset.

Heres hoping for a Skill Update in the PvP Love (Not counting on it).

Sarevok Thordin · Sep 18, 2009, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyekwah2

I see where they were going with the changes to Patient Spirit and Selfless Spirit. Monks used to be notoriously bad with energy management. The energy capacity was one of the defining aspects of a good monk back in the days of prophecies (for those that remember, Elementalist/Monks were not uncommon for the energy boost they provided). Monks have been given a holiday for a long time, and it's time that energy become a pressing issue again. Patient Spirit was nerfed because in of itself it was quite a powerful heal for 5 energy. They could have boosted the heal and made it cost 10 energy or they could have just increased the recharge. I think we got off easily, all things considered. Though make no mistake, a heal skill which takes 4 seconds to charge is practically half as useful as a heal skill which takes 2 seconds to charge. Patient Spirit, you will be missed.

Also, did ya *have* to nerf Distortion? I could possibly understand MoR, but Distortion already had a serious drawback. You needed a lot of attribute points just to get to the point where you could have the equivalent of a permanent energy drain. Plus, don't see a lot of mesmers around these days, do you? I'd like to see underused skills like Overload get major damage boosts so that those who play well make Mesmer a decent pvp class. Now, more often than not, you see them as secondaries to pair Spiteful Spirit alongside empathy.

I believe the MB eles are to blame for Distortion.

moriz · Sep 18, 2009, 01:06 PM // 13:06

patient spirit used to take 3 seconds to recharge. it now recharges in 4. one second difference. if you cannot adjust to a one second difference, then you shouldn't use the skill. for those of us who can, we'll still use it. it is, after all, still better than the alternatives.

Test Me · Sep 18, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shasgaliel

They could nerf all monk skills to oblivion and I would still play it. Nobody is forcing anyone to change any characters. I wonder why so many people see the end of the world when 1 out of 70 skills gets a nerf. If you are able to play only specific bars with particular skills there then I am sorry for you...

Oh cut the crap already. What are you playing? Presearing all times? Some starter areas? After you've played for the time this game has been around for of course you play HM dungeons, end game farms and whatever is left to fill up HoM. And since in order to do that you need to play these areas thousands of times, of course you need to do it in the most efficient way possible.

You'd not use inefficient/broken/nerfed to hell builds to do whatever you wanted to do or you were doing before if a sin does it far more effectively. So you are "forced" by efficiency to switch your main to something else so you meet your goals.

Simple example: You want to max luxon (a PvE goal as any other)? You run Mo. You can't run your main class or preferred class because ... you can't achieve the same results unless you take 100x more time. Your main is not a Mo? Well though luck, you'd better work your ass off to create a Mo and rune it and etc so you can finish your luxon title.

And what did they do now? Well they basically said: you want to still achieve the goals you were after with your monks? Though luck, we want you to switch to perma sins.

Fun times.

Shadowhaze · Sep 18, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

The inexperienced can learn the same things on any other profession.

N1ghtstalker · Sep 18, 2009, 01:50 PM // 13:50

why nerf 600?
just why? tell me why?